It is explicitly explained that the title "Haseki Sultan" was created when Hrrem married Suleyman. And with all this research you are only proving yourself wrong because NONE OF YOUR SOURCES say that M was a Muslim Convert, rather, they say, Mahidevran, daughter of Abdullah. Despite the fact that male European artists were denied access to Hurrem in the Harem, there are many Renaissance paintings of the famous sultana. Doug Weller talk 15:40, 12 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], The Haseki Sultan was chief consort, and Hrrem Sultan was Sleyman's. Thank you. In fact, Suleiman was afraid of his eldest sons power. Mahidevran played a great role during her sons education as governor. In a play entitled The Holy League, Titian appears on stage at the Venetian Senate, and stating that he has just come from visiting the Sultan, displays his painting of Sultana Rossa or Roxelana. WebAccording to some reports he died of natural causes, while others say that Mahidevran, the mother of Sehzade Mustafa gave the order to kill Sehzade Mehmet because he could take The name Abdullah may be used as a generic patronymic (father's name) for slave converts but this name was and is very common for any royal family as well as a common family in any Islamic dynasty. After the death of Suleiman's other sons and his ascension to the throne in 1520 she acquired the rank of mother of the Sultan's eldest son. Mahidevran's name ( Turkish pronunciation: [mahidevan], Persian: ) means "one who is always beautiful", "one whose beauty never fades" or "beauty of the times" in Persian. I am giving you answer about Mahidevran Sultan's rank.According to reliable sources it is confirmed that Mahidevran Sultan was Suleiman's Bas kadin(chief consort or chief lady).This was for those women who bore the eldest male child of reigning Sultan.As Mahidevran Sultan was the mother of Sehzade Mustafa,eldest son of Suleiman the magnificent,it is very logical that she held the rank Bas kadin or Birinci Kadin,it's from me which is logical. Mahidevran Turbesi5.jpg 320 240; 21 KB. [20] She pleads with the King to trust her envoy Hassan Aa who took another message from her by word of mouth. Hope you got my point. Even as a consort, her power was comparable with the most powerful woman of the Imperial Harem, who by tradition was the sultan's mother or valide sultan. I think she was chief consort but later lost her position though she remained first wife. If you want you may mention an unnecessary word "slave" to the totally irrelevant section of "Origin and early life" but trust me you'll spent your whole life (and next one as well if you're a monk) reverting the changes made by those who have problem with this piece of word. All the facts have been laid out but you still want to call Mahidevran a sultana when she wasn't: she didn't legally marry Suleyman, nor was the mother of a sultan. Her greatest philanthropical work was the Great Waqf of AlQuds, a large soup kitchen in Jerusalem that fed the poor. Instead, he attended it. [33] Her rehabilitation had been possible after the death of Hurrem in 1558. Despite Mahidevrans warnings, he stayed in close contact with the other princes. In 1553, Mustafa was very famous in Anatolia. # 9. Including those of John Freely. 113.203.158.58 (talk) 00:23, 8 February 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I request a change of title, to revert it back to its original name (which was only "Mahidevran") and maintain its protected status. Therefore, Suleiman had to announce that he sent Mustafa to the Persian border for safety reasons. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. She frequently accompanied him as a political adviser. The name Roxalane derives from Roksolanes, which was the generic term used by the Ottomans to describe girls from Podolia and Galicia who were taken in slave raids. [16]:131, Her joyful spirit and playful temperament earned her a new name, Hurrem, from Persian Khorram, "the cheerful one". ", That's not the correct conclusion, though. If he still insists, he can bring the source at the reliable sources noticeboard and ask for an opinion there. [10] [11] Find a sensible answer please and then come back with your personal comments. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 01:30, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Actually you are the one making subjective propositions here. Former lover of Sultan Suleiman.But who was she before? Likewise Abdullah Frres's children were not slaves by nature. [50] Titian's painting of Roxelana is very similar to his portrait of her daughter, Mihrimah Sultan.[49]. These princesses, were destined to be gifted (in other words sold) by their ruling fathers to their higher or equivalent ranking rulers, kings and grand Vazirs (ministers). She's a hatun, not a legal wife, still had similar privilege as a haseki, her son didn't become sultan: all the facts point to her not being officially a sultana. [35], She built mosque complexes in Adrianopole and Ankara. [49] Artists Titian, Melchior Lorich, and Sebald Beham were all influential in creating a visual representation of Roxelana. WebDeaths in June 2017 passed! Your stubbornness of using only Peirce's provided information while neglecting other possible sources shows your own prejudice, not anyone else's. Although he never visited Istanbul, he either imagined her appearance or had a sketch of her. And for your info, they all married the sultan and were legal wives, and those that weren't married were called hatun. Dear Phso 2,I think i have made the issue clear which is about the royal woman "Mahidevran" and you shuould not have any doubt or confusion or Question regarding this subject. Hatun is used for every other lady in Turkish and Persian language. Mahidevran could hardly have predicted Hurrem Sultans success. Her supposed rivals relationship with Suleiman (r. 15201566) was unprecedented, a This new woman was the famous Hrrem Sultan. Hurrem's contemporaries describe her as a woman who was strikingly good-looking, and different from everybody else because of her red hair. Memorial ID. This woman could be Mahidevran or could also be Gulfem or the first unknown wife of Suleiman. - Worldandhistory (talk) 16:33, 28 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2: Two of your sources are at stake (Colin Iber's and Peirce's), please read page 136 of Colin's book, this gives definition of Slave in general term, so calling any member of Sultan's family a slave does not necessarily makes them a slave by origin, and P simply used a text from Alberi, P herself only called M a concubine. Birinci Kadin was used for wives only, Brinici Kadin was not used for concubines or ordinary consorts, Birinci Kadin meant First Wife/Senior Consort. [31], A skilled commander of Suleiman's army, Ibrahim eventually fell from grace after an imprudence committed during a campaign against the Persian Safavid empire during the OttomanSafavid War (153255), when he awarded himself a title including the word "Sultan". That same year ambassador Navagero wrote, It is impossible to describe how much he is loved and desired by all successors to the throne. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 05:37, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], A few sources does claim she was a wife. I do NOT understand. [46], In 2007, Muslims in Mariupol, a port city in Ukraine opened a mosque to honour Roxelana.[47]. Hence it is possible, though not likely, that Mahidevran also carried the title Sultan. The original caption is only "sultana" and there is no reference to Rosne Pranvere. You can infer and speculate and theorize all you want, but history is history and I find it highly disrespectful and arrogant that you think your abstractions are worth more than the reality of events. [16]:130 Suleiman and Hurrem's last child, ehzade Cihangir was born with a hunchback, but by that time Hurrem had borne enough healthy sons to secure the future of the Ottoman dynasty. We have not seen another such example after 15th century of a Senior consort being not called Sultana. In this case, Suleiman not only broke the old custom, but began a new tradition for the future Ottoman sultans: To marry in a formal ceremony and to give their consorts significant influence on the court, especially in matters of succession. Nedim Ardoa (talk) 08:32, 8 January 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply], The page Mahidevran Sultan should be moved to Mahidevran Glbahar Hatun because Mahidevran was never a concubine or a Haseki Sultan and Hrrem Sultan was the first Haseki Sultan.--Retrieverlove 1:09, 22 June 2014, According to Leslie P. Peirce, prior to the creation of the title Haseki Sultan for Hrrem Sultan, all the Ottoman consorts carried an alternative royal title, "Hatun".But Leslie P. Peirce also said that during 16th century(Suleiman's reign) the title Hatun for a valide,princesses and Sultan's consorts were changed by Sultan(it's called Sultana in the harem to distinguish between male and female). Friday Social Amazing volunteers host Christmas dinner. And you Sir, just decided to crash in and make an edit. Timaru, 7910 Your email address will not be published. Roxelana (Ukrainian: , romanized:Roksolana; lit. [3][11][12] While Hrrem became Suleiman's new favorite and later his legal wife, Mahidevran Sultan retained the status of the crowned mother of Suleiman's eldest son,[13] and became Suleiman's "first wife". People have done a great job depicting fake ottoman culture. Imber, Colin (2002). Like every woman in the harem, there is little information about her early life; she was from either Circassia or Montenegro. Learn more about merges. Whatever sources we can find, half of them supports the Hatun theory, the other half supports Sultan theory. She wasn't able to smile as she once did, and she didn't show much generosity towards her Circassian or Albanian? Two of her letters to King Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (reigned 15481572) have survived, and during her lifetime the Ottoman Empire generally had peaceful relations with the Polish state within a PolishOttoman alliance. Osmanl tarihi, Volume 2. She was the grandmother of Murad III. Again it's just my opinion to me it looks like a fact. Our ancestors said that the plague goes away once the trees shed their leaves in autumn."[26]. 8:02Am Jun 6, 2017 morning to take a look at it dazzling performances that the Inbetweener on the film, the voice behind the character Wallace who h Hurrem was allowed to give birth to more than one son which was a stark violation of the old imperial harem principle, "one concubine mother one son," which was designed to prevent both the mother's influence over the sultan and the feuds of the blood brothers for the throne. :P Well, like I said, all these efforts prove nothing but if you are convinced read may latest comments on my last reply; "you may add the word slave to Origins if you are still convinced but must also use the term "possibly" along with it to maintain a NPOV." [32] After three other grand viziers in eight years, Suleiman selected Hurrem's son-in-law, Damat Rstem Pasha, husband of Mihrimah, to become the grand vizier. Isn't that important by the way for the authors to mention that M was a convert slave instead of giving this information in a subliminal message form like "M, the daughter of Abdullah"? However, I added ""the most convincing theory"" was wrong I admit, therefore, I have changed that. In official account, not all consorts who was referred as SULTANA was legally married to Sultan nor was the Valide Sultan. For the record, you still failed to answer my question, rephrasing; why in some theatre plays she's the only Hatun ranked consort who is erroneously addressed like Sultana? [16]:131 After Hrrem resided at Topkap it became known as the New Palace (saray- jedid).[28]. Yes, it was and the series shouldve put more emphasis on Valide Sultanas criticism of her behaviour. Hurrem and Mahidevran really did fight, but Life in a Sultans harem was not glamorous and it certainly wasnt about love. Which memorial do you think is a duplicate of Mahidevran Hatun (174192522)? While she was serving as the mother to heir apparent she was considered a Sultan's family member (Ottoman court etiquette), hence the title. For Sultan Selim I was indeed the best King the Ottomans had, up until then. Best R. - Worldandhistory (talk) 16:08, 25 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2, your provided sources does not particularly points at M's father. [22] Nurbanu died in December 1583. Worldandhistory (talk) 00:10, 25 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], You did not answer my first point, no where in the article does it say she belonged to a noble family, the article is now free from any claims of her being scion, the article simply focuses on her origins. Moreover, remaining in Istanbul, she moved out of the harem located in the Old Palace (Eski Saray) and permanently moved into the Topkap Palace after a fire destroyed the old harem. Never before had a former slave been elevated to the status of the sultan's lawful spouse, a development which astonished observers in the palace and in the city. She is part of the love triangle with Lloyd and Poppy. He was accused of collaborating with the Shah and was executed in the battle camp. 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Source at the reliable sources noticeboard and ask for an opinion there trees shed their leaves in autumn ``... Warnings, he either imagined her appearance or had a sketch of her daughter, Mihrimah Sultan. [ ]! Just my opinion to me it looks like a fact, though not likely, Mahidevran... However, I have changed that and ask for an opinion there: Roksolana ; lit were... Mosque complexes in Adrianopole and Ankara to me it looks like a fact Suleiman had announce! Reference to Rosne Pranvere King to trust her envoy Hassan Aa who another. The reliable sources noticeboard and ask for an opinion there in Amasya, which paralleled of... Used for every other lady in Turkish and Persian language ] Find a sensible answer please then. Did, and she did n't show much generosity towards her Circassian or Albanian being not called sultana was either. Another message from her by word of mouth `` sultana '' and there is no to! 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